Unfiltered with Sarah Jane Foster · The Full Transcript
Sarah Jane Foster in conversation with Robson Aguiar
Robson Aguiar | How To Spot a Champion Racehorse
Sarah Jane Foster (00:00): From a farm in Brazil to Group one success in horse racing. But what does it really take to spot a champion before anyone else? This is Robson Aguiar on Unfiltered. Robson, you're very welcome to the unfiltered podcast. So tell us this. What was life like growing up in Brazil, and how did that environment shaped the horseman you are today?
Robson Aguiar (00:19): I grew up in Brazilian farm. I always work with animals. I work with horses. Since I was five, I was a work with horses, a ride, the horses, ponies and I be in the farm all time around the horses. And I love the horses. Since, my five year old.
Sarah Jane Foster (00:47): Five years old. You. Have you been riding horses since you were five years old?
Robson Aguiar (00:50): I ride Ponies and like a a small competition in like a, like Cross county, something like that. And since I, you know, when I grow up, I, I grow up in competition. I always on horse until I moved to some Paulo 90. I moved to San Paul to race school, and, I started in the school there. And I get in my life, I rode a few winners. Then I moved to Rio, and I ride my Clemmie off in Rio. And the after that I moved to Ireland.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:44): When you arrived in Ireland. What were the biggest culture shocks and challenges you faced?
Robson Aguiar (01:49): Like when coming to our land? I speak nothing English so was hard for me to to learn. So I had to learn quick. I'm still learning, but you know. And I started to work for I come to work for Adeline. I was on there but is there was no no, I know how I learn English. So I moved to kill their work for James Levy, and I started going the the girl, she's Brazilian, she's teaching English, so she's teaching me a little bit the after that I learned every day by every day.
Sarah Jane Foster (02:42): You've said before that you never get tired because you love what you do. Where does that work ethic come from?
Robson Aguiar (02:49): Like, you know, like when you do something, you love it. You do. You always enjoy and, you know, get tired more, you do more. You want to do like he raise your horse like he I love it, I love break them, I love it. See them improve it day by day. And you know like we have like a few nice horsey we have done in the breeze up in the past. We we buy them a year, we break them and we see them improvement. And they do good. They win few group race for us. So. And like he in the last three, 4 or 5 years we have 5 or 6 group ones like the horses, we broke your horse, we breathe the so and every year you want to do more and more and that's you never get tired. You you want improving every time and you try to do better every time.
Sarah Jane Foster (03:54): And you're a known for producing top breeds or pauses. What was the moment you realized your system genuinely worked?
Robson Aguiar (04:01): Like, you know, when we started by a horse and they turned like a as a good horse, it's like a we have like a summer sun and a day Learjet start off a mirage Queen Jojo a lot. Nice horse is like a. And in the past I worked for Roger Callahan in Tally Ho as well. We sold a lot of good horse like he daddy a perfect power, a lot of good horses. You enjoy when you have that kind of horses in your hand and you see the progress they get day by day, and when they go race and they run good, you race and they turn a good horse like I. Stallions like, hey, we had last three years, we have a king still and Bucanero Fort are is on a blaze powder blue. You know when these horses come you, you try get better and better every year, you know like and hopefully we keep doing hopefully we keep improving.
Sarah Jane Foster (05:26): Yeah. So will you give us a sense of your daily routine during peak prep season.
Robson Aguiar (05:32): Yeah. Look you know like that time now we we we go slowly build moose on the yearly at the moment and the race horses the one last year we give you like a little bit of break and now we go slow on them. Just get them build moose go easy on them to start to work in February to get them ready to race. March. April.
Sarah Jane Foster (06:06): Okay. And when you walk into Tattersalls or Goffs and look at a horse, do you start with pedigree or the physical specimen?
Robson Aguiar (06:13): I never open my book before I get in the silly complex. Like sometimes I don't have a book. I just get a book in there and I go horse by a horse. If I like the horse done, I open the the page and mark, you know, like what I want. But normally I go in the sale, I, I try see every horse if I can and the mark there is there, but I prefer physical, the force and the pedigree. But if you have everything is be good. You know if you take your box is good, but first thing you horse have to be like physical and be athletic.
Sarah Jane Foster (07:02): So what's the difference then between a horse that can breathe well on a horse that can truly perform at a world class level?
Robson Aguiar (07:09): Some horse breeds well, but they don't be good race horse because in the breeze he, you know, like they are, you have to have breakfast your horse and a. You know, like in the breeze you, you have you can find a really good horse in the breeze as well. It's not need to be fast in the breeze. They because you see a lot in good horses. They know breeze fast in the day, but they turn a good race horse and some horse breeze very fast, but never turn a good horse. So that's you have it. You let for the breeze of judgment when they buy a horse. But a is for me. You should see the horse action. And the way he's finished the gallop and the gallop out. That's what for me, they should see in the breeze. Because when horse breeze fast but they don't finish the breeze is. I don't think they have much improvement.
Sarah Jane Foster (08:28): So how do you balance pushing a horse to show what's best while still protecting it?
Robson Aguiar (08:33): Starchy well, in the breeze on the finish. Strong and galloping and see the way the horse is like they stride a you know, like you have to be. Everything together. Like you have to have a speed term and class.
Sarah Jane Foster (08:53): So when you're assessing a yearling, what tells you this is worth spending serious money on?
Robson Aguiar (08:58): He's he's the penny who is bit against you. You know, like nobody wants a beach one meal in the horse. But sometimes you really like the horse and Europe's opposition like the horse as well. So if you want the horse, you have it. You try winning there. But you know, it's sometimes it works, sometimes no works. Because sometimes if you don't have it, all the people to beat against you. You can buy for some price, but you have like two big people bitch against you. You have to pay more.
Sarah Jane Foster (09:42): Yeah. So you've built a reputation for finding diamonds in the rough. What's your buying strategy at the major sales?
Robson Aguiar (09:48): Okay, I try by nice horse and cheap again is not a every time it works. Sometimes you buy cheap. Your horse, a really nice horse. Sometimes you stretch a little bit by overpriced or sometimes not to work.
Sarah Jane Foster (10:04): So you're known for, your yearlings. Do you see yourself branching into folds or even moving into broodmares as the next phase of your business?
Robson Aguiar (10:13): We try do a little bit, you know, like a little bit here, everything. And mostly I like a buy units because when you buy years, you can go in the sale, you pick you what you want. When you breathe, you have what God give it to you. You know, like a sometime you, you, you can have a nice horse, but sometimes you have good style, good mare, but don't really, you know, don't come in good horse. So I, I must prepare by. But we have a few mares as well because we have a few style. Like he starts to do a little bit in style. So we have few mares and he try investing mares and style. So they go, they buy a really, really good pedigrees, they buy expensive mares and they try build a sturdy farm in the future and hopefully works.
Sarah Jane Foster (11:22): The market is becoming more competitive in the past few years. What changes have you seen in buyer behavior on the overall landscape?
Robson Aguiar (11:30): Okay, you know, like they usually say the last 2 or 3 years, they go over the roof like they they very expensive. So when like it is a like he he watching a Dolphy all these people coming to buy ears and for it's very good for industry because. So when they buy Elise they spend a lot of money. So you get the breeders get confident and they improve the measures, they improve the falls and they improve the style. Everything improved because they know how the people to buy them. So they improve all the pedigree. That's good for industry, good for races. Because, you know, if they improve the the marriage, improve their style, so they improve their race horses.
Sarah Jane Foster (12:30): So how important is timing when picking the right sale for the right horses?
Robson Aguiar (12:34): Look, you know, like they the penny a what they. They consign they, they pick. But the most like the early sale. They like they are they are a, you know, when they born they go, they get strong, they go for early sale and like someone they live for late sale because they born late. And the penny what they consign they doing but they like for sale have to be like a horse is strongly horse a physical horse athletic for the late sale you have to have a more pedigree, more classy type of horse.
Sarah Jane Foster (13:22): Yeah. And so 20 years ago, breeze up sales were often viewed as a place for castoffs or late developers. Would you build your entire business model around proving that wrong? How do you see the future of the breeze up market, and where do you believe it is heading?
Robson Aguiar (13:37): I think like a lot of good horse coming from breeze for last six seven years, like a the people do breeze, they really good juju people and they prepare the horse very well and they try you know like they try the best and you know they improve every year. Now they go in the yearly sale. They buy it for 100 plus to breeze. You know before is people they bring in the breeze more weighty like a lady fools and a year they cannot get money in the sale. They leave for breeze. But now a lot of people, they only do breeze. They invest a lot of money to improve the the horse because they know how the people to buy breeze. Now they you can sell breeze for like 501 million before. It's very hard to get that kind of price. But if you have a really good horse, take your whole box. You can get well paid.
Sarah Jane Foster (14:49): Now you've recently taken out your own training license in your own name after years working as assistant trainer to Adrian Murray. What are your goals for this season?
Robson Aguiar (15:00): Look, you know, I try keep improving every year. What are you doing? I, I be witchy 84 last 4 or 5 years. And like every year we have a good season. We got a two group one last year. And you know it's not easy to get that kind of in special. In Ireland you run against more. You run against, you know, top level horses. Johnny, Martha, Josephine a lot more like he. New trainers come and racing Ireland gets too competitive. So hopefully next he. We still can compete in high level and we have a nice list and you know they go in good time with those low works below muscles. And hopefully we can get a really good year next year. We have a power blue. He's a good beginner's prospect for us. We get Buccaneer Forge gonna race in here. If a name a queen. She's improved. We raised by race and she could be nice sprint filly and and new style. We have like a passion for so we have a I very happy what I see on them at the moment. You know they improve the day by day. We have about 6 or 7 nice one so hopefully they do well. So and we have a a nice Elise in home at the moment. Hopefully we can be competitive competitive in high level next year again.
Sarah Jane Foster (17:12): So how do you plan to blend your breeze up operation with your training ambitions?
Robson Aguiar (17:17): Look, I guess I say I, I concentration more in the races and I have a, a few lads a work for me in the yard. They start to build them a business which brings up I live with them, you know, I buy some chair in horse with them, like he and I. I let they do the breeze and I concentrate more in the race.
Sarah Jane Foster (17:49): What type of horse do you want to be known for? Training.
Robson Aguiar (17:52): Look fast. The horse is good. Your horse? The classy horse. But look, we try get the a summary. Nice race horses and like he I try get like a. I don't want to be like a greedy but I I try to get a good horse to compete in high level and like when get July sale, if they don't be good enough, I think we move them to England. To move it to the sales. You know, because for training Ireland, you have to have a really good horse. Because if you don't have a good horse, no point. You compete in Ireland because the race in Ireland very competitive.
Sarah Jane Foster (18:48): So how different is the pressure when the horse runs in your own name?
Robson Aguiar (18:52): Look, I've been in the race since he 98, so always like he he's a pleasure for. But he's a good pressure. But you do your best and try to get your results. But if you don't get the result today, go for next day. You, you you have to not think much about if no work today, just you have to think what you do wrong and try. Do right and prove and try fix. And you know, like I don't think I don't have much pressure because or every pressure gets is not going to work. So you have it. You get the horse in the health and good physical health and try getting the best of them. And sometimes it works, sometimes not works.
Sarah Jane Foster (19:50): It's like us through the business model, but behind a top consignor. How do you manage investment risk and reward?
Robson Aguiar (19:57): I love race horse and already I make in my life I make which race horse, so whatever I do, I invest it. You know, like I invest in racing horse. And all the time, you know, sometimes it works, sometimes no works. But I love it though, and I keep it do until I can.
Sarah Jane Foster (20:28): So what are the core revenue streams in your world? That's for people who don't know the race and where, like what are the main ways to make money in the race and world?
Robson Aguiar (20:37): Look, you have to have a good horse and they have to turn a stallion or, you know, like a lot of people do, a by horse, a try to form and resell. They make a few quid. Oh by IL by IL is and pink hook and make few quids. Few people making money in that. Some people making money in the breeze up. Some people making money in the breeder. And some people lose the money is, is, is that is from the only thing like some people do very well and make money. Some people do well, don't make money and you have to have a little bit look and you have to be a work like a, like a professional and to try get your best what you're doing.
Sarah Jane Foster (21:43): So what has been the smartest business decision you've ever made.
Robson Aguiar (21:47): In just gave me you never be smart.
Unidentified speaker (21:51): Just gave me you look.
Robson Aguiar (21:52): And in this game you'll be, you know, like, you know, when I bought a book on Air Force, like, he was a nice horse, and I bought him in the right time, you know, like I knew very well, bought him. So I think he. That was smart. But, you know, like, sometimes you buy horse and think is it was good business, but in the end is no good. But he's he's not the balance like he, you know, like in this game I say you have to be think and put your foot in the ground and and sometimes it works. And if you know works you, you keep trying. Next year works. You know, that's numbers. If you buy numbers, you know every I buy 40 to 60 years and like. For works like he you have to have numbers.
Sarah Jane Foster (23:01): And what has been the most expensive mistake that you've made.
Robson Aguiar (23:05): I look I look we do a lot expensive mistakes. Every day. Every day you know, but some cheaper, horses. Sometimes he covers the expensive ones and sometimes, you know, like in the summertime, you have to wait for or five years to replace the.
Sarah Jane Foster (23:31): What makes a truly special horse in your eyes..
Robson Aguiar (23:34): When horse on us, put your head down, work on that list. And they love. What is he doing? Love. Be raising horse. Some horse. They love it. Be racehorse. They die for you and some horse they have ability. They have everything. But they don't give it to you. So when you have a honest your horse, that's what you look for.
Sarah Jane Foster (24:08): And is there a horse that you've ever sold that you still think about?
Robson Aguiar (24:12): Power blue.
Sarah Jane Foster (24:13): Oh, really?
Robson Aguiar (24:14): Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (24:14): Why?
Robson Aguiar (24:15): Because I always I have faith on him because since day one, he's put your head down. And he was very weak last year when he runs and he's never leave you down. He's always. He's he's put your head down and help you.
Sarah Jane Foster (24:38): So how much of your work is instinct versus data and systems like versus the numbers? I feel like you are. You go off your your gut instinct when you're working with horses based on what you said.
Robson Aguiar (24:50): Yeah. Like I, I work like a I'm very happy to do. I'm very happy to see my horse is doing well. And I very happy to see the horse is improving too. When I sell the horse, the horse do well for other people, make other people happy. And you know, that's what I look for. Make make a good horse, sell for people and make people happy and to keep the business going.
Sarah Jane Foster (25:24): Yeah. And what do you want your legacy in Irish and international racing to be?
Robson Aguiar (25:29): I want to like a like a they compete like in Ireland build up the the farm on the horse and try go in outside in Ireland for like a biggie days like he America Dubai Hong Kong and Australia for the big days a like a Breeders Cup. They they must race. We love to go on to run in the competitive in there and we be a we hit the line second 3 or 4 time and run well all the time. We will no one there yet, but hopefully next year we go there which he and really chance and try win their.
Sarah Jane Foster (26:26): So Robson at the end of every podcast that I do, I do a fun quickfire round. Would you like to do it with us? Favorite horse.
Robson Aguiar (26:35): Arizona Blaze because he was a really, really good at you. Your old and he's had a fast and you know like they I think he was the favorite horse because he was very strong very nice horse, nice looking horse. And he's be doing a style now. And I look forward to see him do well.
Sarah Jane Foster (27:06): What's the best track to watch race in your opinion.
Robson Aguiar (27:10): In Ireland is the quarter England I scored America, I say. A lot of nice track. I love it, you see like Santa Nita King long. Saratoga I, I look here I, I, I, I love to see good race good images and big images.
Sarah Jane Foster (27:43): Brazil or Ireland.
Robson Aguiar (27:44): I like both count. I born in Brazil, live half of my life in there. I live half my life in Ireland. I love these two countries. I be everywhere but these two countries, the two countries I. I like to leave.
Sarah Jane Foster (28:01): You like both of them. Good answer. Yeah. Safe answer. What's the most valuable lesson you learned at the sales?
Robson Aguiar (28:10): You. Every day you go to the sale, you learn your lessons. Like every year. You learn because every. You think you buy a good horse, or sometime you buy horse with chance and they turn good. Your horse when you know, like, just do whatever you think all the time and pray for God for that work.
Sarah Jane Foster (28:36): So a moment in your career that changed everything.
Robson Aguiar (28:39): All time in my career change for me because. Where I come from, where I be now, for me, I just say thank you for everything all the time. You know, every day is changing for me. If if I wake every morning, if I have healthy to work for me, that's what I need. You know, like if you have health, that's. I very happy with that.
Sarah Jane Foster (29:16): Your health is your wealth, as they say. Yeah. One mistake new consignor is always make.
Robson Aguiar (29:25): Money.
Sarah Jane Foster (29:26): Can I say, how long do you have?
Robson Aguiar (29:28): Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (29:30): What's the best what's the best sale to buy value.
Robson Aguiar (29:35): Look, I find every sale you can buy. Value every sale. If you work hard, if you work hard. Every sale and concentration. Every cell, every every year and every cell. Different kind of horse. And you can buy value.
Sarah Jane Foster (29:57): A win or breeze. That meant everything to you.
Robson Aguiar (30:01): When a good like a win, a big a festival and big race. Like when you win a Group one race, that's big thing for you. Like you something you feel like I don't think you can not feeling in other things, like when you win group one, when you buy, when you, you break you when you do from the zero to do a group, one win is like is a big thing in your life. Big, big thing.
Sarah Jane Foster (30:40): Well that's it Robson, thank you so much for coming on the Unfiltered podcast.
Robson Aguiar (30:45): All right. Thank you sir.
Unidentified speaker (30:46): Thank.