Unfiltered with Sarah Jane Foster · The Full Transcript
Sarah Jane Foster in conversation with Philip Reynolds
Philip Reynolds | How I Built a €500 Million Business
Sarah Jane Foster (00:00): Philip Reynolds took over his family business at just 25 and grew to 500 million euro in sales. He's the son of former Taoiseach Albert Reynolds, a businessman, investor and now he's building his next venture. Philip Reynolds, you're very welcome to the podcast.
Philip Reynolds (00:16): Thank you very much. Delighted to be with you.
Sarah Jane Foster (00:18): Now, Philip, tell me this. Growing up as the son of Albert Reynolds, what was that like?
Philip Reynolds (00:24): Give you a bit of background because there's seven of us, there's sort of seven children when dad went into politics in 1977. So when he went in, I was 12, 13 years of age. I have an elder sister, so she would have been 14. And there's seven of us in 11 years. So the youngest would have been only three or four years of age. So. And it was only me. Poor mom. So you can imagine what the household was like. So being the son of Albert Browns wasn't exactly now the greatest fun at that stage. And he was away, he was gone all the time. Because if it wasn't in the show band businesses before he went into politics, it was in politics. So we had a, a single parent and that was my poor mom. So that's what being the son of Al looked like in the early days.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:12): A little bit chaotic then with all the, all your brothers and sisters.
Philip Reynolds (01:15): Absolutely.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:15): So where were you then in the family?
Philip Reynolds (01:17): Second.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:17): You were the second?
Philip Reynolds (01:18): Yeah. So Mariam was the eldest. Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:20): Okay. I love it. So tell me this. So people often assume them political families have wealth. What was your reality and how did it shape your drive?
Philip Reynolds (01:28): Wealth. Yeah, I don't think, I don't know that you would describe us as, as, as being a wealthy family, but we didn't need for anything either. So in that regard we had, we had sufficient to get by. So. But dad, I think dad sort of was a product of his showband business years. So he was always smartly dressed and he always sported a nice suntan, so. And always drove a nice car. So I think people looking at him from the outside would probably have thought that he was a far more wealthier man than perhaps he was. But, but no, we, we were, we were, we certainly weren't poor in any sense and we certainly weren't poor in terms of the love, care and attention that we got at home either. So, yeah, if that was, if that was wealth, then we had plenty of it.
Sarah Jane Foster (02:21): Love it. So where, where was the family home then?
Philip Reynolds (02:24): The family's home was in Longford.
Sarah Jane Foster (02:25): Okay.
Philip Reynolds (02:26): Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (02:26): Until you're a Longford man, Philip. I am, I was claiming you as our own a West Mead man?
Philip Reynolds (02:31): Well, sure. I mean, we've always claimed West Mead as part of our own as well when dad was in politics. So any connections we could forge with Mullingar and beyond, we did it so that we could a few extra number ones in it for him. So I don't mind you claiming me as your own knight. That's fine for me.
Sarah Jane Foster (02:47): Fair enough. So tell me, did the family name add pressure or create freedom to pursue your own path?
Philip Reynolds (02:53): I don't think it was. I don't think it was pressure. I mean, I was in boarding school. I went to ross grave for five years between 77 and 82, so. And I said dad went into politics in 77. He became minister for the first time in 79, and then he kind of was either Minister or of some description or Taoiseach there afterwards. So for my early years, and for his early years in politics, I was in. I was in Russ Gray. So if you're in a boarding school of 300 lads, you know, you don't get to stand on your graces. So being a Reynolds didn't really matter. It didn't matter to certainly today Cistercian monks. It didn't matter what your surname was, so it didn't impact that much. But when you were home, you would be conscious that if you were out, you would be conscious, I think, that, you know, everybody was a voter at the end of today and you would be hoping that we wouldn't turn too many of them off voting for him. So we might watch our P's and Q's, perhaps a little bit more than the others might do, you know, but more than that, no. Did it help? It certainly didn't hinder us in terms of what we wanted to do as children. So. But growing up in Longford as a Reynolds, there was another Reynolds family. My brothers or my father's brother also lived there and was quite, quite the businessman in Longford as well. And he owned the Longford Arms Hotel and of course he owned all the nightclubs as well. So being a Reynolds in that regard was definitely a help, even though I used to claim I was Jim's son rather than Albert's son, so that I could get into all these places for free. So I love that. So definitely. No, the name didn't. The name wasn't a hindrance for sure.
Sarah Jane Foster (04:40): Right, okay, so tell us, so when your dad actually became Taoiseach, so what was. How long in advance did you know that he was going to become the Taoiseach and then when he finally did, what was that like?
Philip Reynolds (04:50): Well, we didn't know that he was going to become Taoiseach because he got sacked by Charlie because he came out against Charlie over the whole phone tapping crisis at that stage. And so he got sacked as Minister for Finance.
Sarah Jane Foster (05:08): What was that? I actually don't know about that.
Philip Reynolds (05:12): The whole. Why he got sacked?
Sarah Jane Foster (05:13): No.
Philip Reynolds (05:14): Oh yeah, because. Well, there was. I can't remember what the name of the program was now, but Sean Daugherty went on one program on RTE and said that Charlie had knew about tapping journalists funds. And so dad rolled in behind Sean Daugherty, who was at fault, TD from Roscommon. And dad wrote in behind him and supported his view that, you know, that that wasn't kosher, so to speak. And anyway, Charlie ended up sacking him, so. And then there was a move against Charlie at the time and I think dad was seen to be the main orchestrator of that. So having been very good friends for a long time, the pair of boys fell out. So dad found himself without a job. But then the momentum carried and it looked like Charlie was in trouble and eventually Charlie had to resign and then it became an election for leader. So I do remember traveling the country with them that stage where he would have to canvass all of the TDs, senators. Oh, gee, how old was I? I was in my mid-20s.
Sarah Jane Foster (06:20): Early.
Philip Reynolds (06:20): Okay, mid-20s. Late mid to late 20s. Yeah. So anyway, I knew I was. I was able to drive anyway because I used to drive my. Because he had never driven because as I said, he became a minister in 1977, 1979. And from that year forward he was either in government or out of it for a very short space of time. But he hadn't had a driver's license since he went into politics, so he never drove himself after he got involved in politics. So during that period when he was sacked, I ended up being his chauffeur. So for when he wanted to canvas any TDs around the country, I was the one that was driving him. So I remember the Independent were running a poll, a telephone poll, as to who would be the next leader of Fianna Fall. I remember going to Foxford with them down in County Mayo to see two TDs there to canvas their support in the coming leadership election. And the whole way down in the whole band, mobile phones had just been launched and we're all very excited about this. Only the whole way down and the whole way back in the car, we were ringing the Independent telephone pole and etched in my memory is you've just voted for Albert Rans to be the next leader of Fianna Fall. You've just voted for Albertans next leader, Fianna Fall. I don't know what my telephone bill was like when I got back to Dublin that night. But the whole way down to May and the whole way back I voted for him to be the next leader of Fianna Fall. So the poll came out on the Sunday and he. He was. He was head of the poll ahead of Bertie Ahern, Mary o', Rourke, Michael Kennedy and I can't remember.
Sarah Jane Foster (07:48): Wow.
Philip Reynolds (07:49): Yeah. So we didn't know other than I had a hefty telephone bill for ensuring that I did the best marketing campaign I could for him. And so it turned out that he became Taoiseach. So. Yeah, that was 1990. 90. 90, Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (08:03): That's incredible.
Philip Reynolds (08:04): Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (08:05): So what was the celebrations like then when he became T shirt?
Philip Reynolds (08:07): Fantastic, because we brought him back to Long.
Sarah Jane Foster (08:11): Where did you go with the Longford Arms?
Philip Reynolds (08:13): Well, sure, where else could you support. You had to support the uncle. But there was a big not. It was a big. It was very nice because there was a big welcome farm in Longford and the courthouse and Longford is next door to the Longford Arms. So there was a huge gathering of on the main street there in Longford and he addressed them off the flat roof and the courthouse and it was fantastic. But it had been the same when he got elected back first in 1977 as well. So it was just repeating. But yeah, the people of Longford were. Were very good to him.
Sarah Jane Foster (08:44): That's incredible. I'd say it was electric. So then when he became Taoiseach, then was it like, were you more exposed in the media then and was that a big transition for your family to have like the spotlight on your family constantly? Nobody gives you a handbook on how to deal with that.
Philip Reynolds (09:01): No, no. But my mom was. My mom needed no handbook. A wooden. A wooden spoon is all my mum needed. Yeah. And she made sure she kept us in. So. No, I don't think it was. I don't think it was that much different. I mean, I can maybe say that more than the others because I was older than the others. So.
Sarah Jane Foster (09:21): Okay.
Philip Reynolds (09:22): I'd say if you asked, like, as I said to you, there's seven of us and that's five girls and two boys. So I'd say if you asked the tail end of the family, they might have a different answer for you than. Than. But at that stage, like I was in business and I wasn't too, if I wasn't married. Well, when he became Taoiseach, I was married myself. So, you know, I had my own situation, so it didn't impact me perhaps as much. But as I said, I'm sure if you asked the rump of the family, they might give you a slightly different answer to that.
Sarah Jane Foster (09:51): I can imagine. So, Philip, when you think about ambition, where did yours come from? Like your upbringing, personality, or do you think it was the environment that you were brought up in?
Philip Reynolds (10:02): Well, I mean, sure, ambition. What's ambition other than trying to, you know, do the best you can and succeed as much as you can, and doesn't really matter what sort of walk of life you're in or what you're actually doing in life. If you do the best you can, that's as good as you can be expected to do or you can do. So was it our upbringing? I mean, again, as I said, there's seven of us, and within the seven of us, we have everything from, you know, a judge to an investment banker to myself to a housewife to a fundraiser. So we have everything in the seven of us. And I would say we're all ambitious insofar as we all want to do the best we can in terms of what we're doing, whether that is, you know, rearing a family or whether it's. It's running a business. So. And I would say that in part does come from the environment in which we were brought in, brought up in. But it's also then clearly a sense of. Of what it is and how you value. And what. Value yourself and what it is that you want to do with your own life. So, I mean, for me, my summers were always working in the factory in Edwardstown, so I think I had it figured out fairly early on that it was business I wanted to be in, whereas I said some of my. My other siblings went other routes and I would say have all been as successful, if not even more successful or ambitious than I've been. So it's about doing the best you can in whatever walk of life you're in. And I think to the extent that we've done that, I think we've all been ambitious. If that's. If that's.
Sarah Jane Foster (11:46): Yeah, yeah. I love that you're very humble, Philip. Tell us. I want to go back to the early days of C and D. So what was the early days of C and D like for you personally?
Philip Reynolds (11:58): Well, I was. I started working C and D when I was 18, so I left Ross Gray in 1982. As I said. And I went, I had been working all my summers there and I was due to go to the States to college because I didn't get enough points to go to any college in Ireland. So. And we were building a new, an extension to the factory at that stage in Edgestown. And I said, suggested to dad that I might go in there and see it being built and see it being commissioned so that if I did come back to run the business that I would have known it, you know, sort of nuts and bolts. And he agreed to that. So that was in 1982 and 37 years later, having missed my flight to New York, I was still there. So yeah, so I started there at 18 and then I took over running the business in at 25. So what was that like? Well, maybe I didn't know enough about what business was like to be able to know what it was like, if you know what I mean. For me it was another adventure. And I just looking back on it now, I find it hard to believe or understand how dad had the confidence to let a 25 year old into to take over the business. But I was very, very, very, very lucky insofar as there was very good people there already. And I surrounded myself with good people. Most of them 25 years and more perhaps older than I was, which was a bit of an unusual situation. And two of them who had expressed interest in taking over, running the business at the point in time were I was, I was appointed. So trying to keep them on board, not just satisfied, but trying to keep them on board given that they had signaled ambitions themselves was the first challenge. And I'm glad we succeeded in doing that because it's from them that I learned whatever I learned it was, it was by having those people around me. So it was different. But then, you know, CND at that stage was a reasonably small business. It was, you know, doing 10 or 15 million in turnover. We had about 40 or 50 people employed. So I don't know whether dad kind of looked at and said if he made a mess of it, sure, it's not that big of a mess. I'm sure if he made a success of it, all the better. I don't know how he viewed it. I, I should have asked him in later years as to why he agreed to allow me to do it. But for me it was what I always had wanted to do. And I said I'd spent my summers working there and I had spent time in Russ grave figuring out how many cans we actually canned in a week. And I gone to the supermarket and I had figured out what it was selling for and I thought I had figured out how much we were producing at furniture. I thought dad was making absolutely millions, but I had forgotten a little detail called Vash in the middle, which was about 23 at the time. So when I calculated that back into my calculations, I figured he was actually losing money. But at that stage it was too late. I was there and I was in and as I said, took over then in 1990. So it was exciting stuff that it was different and it was, yeah, challenging.
Sarah Jane Foster (15:29): I can imagine. So C and D didn't just grow as a company, actually transformed Edge resoundment. So what does that legacy mean to you now?
Philip Reynolds (15:36): And yeah, I mean it's we. You know what, you couldn't go anywhere in Edgestown without meeting somebody that worked in cnd. And one of the early things I discovered was in C indeed, if you fell out with somebody, the chances are you'd fall now would have the workforce because they were either brothers, sisters or somehow. Somehow related. So you'd have to be very choosy about the battles that you would pick. So. And then when it'd come to the summer, you know, half the certainly a lot of the male workforce would disappear because of small farms and to be off making the hay. And you'd wonder why Frank Lally didn't show up today. And you know, but Frank had to take in the hay. There was nobody else to do it. So, you know, when you start running a business in a rural community like that, you know, there are some of the considerations that I think when you run businesses in the city and that you don't have to think about or certainly you didn't have to think about back then. So yeah, it was. But you know, for Edgestown, it was clearly it is and was a big employer. And yeah, it's, it's, it's fantastic that CND continues to be headquartered out of Edgerstown and that it's, you know, it's one of its main hubs of production and I'm delighted that it's there and it served generations of families in Edristown. 60. It'll be 60 years in existence in a couple of years time, so.
Sarah Jane Foster (16:58): Oh, wow.
Philip Reynolds (16:59): You know, so yeah, there's been a lot of families through it, our own in our own included. Yeah. So it has all served us all when I hope it does for generations to come. Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (17:09): Oh, for sure. So tell us, what did leading a large workforce in a rural community actually teach you? Choose Your battles, as you say.
Philip Reynolds (17:17): Well, that was. That was one for sure. I think you need to be conscious of. Of. Of your community. You know, I think for me, I never saw anybody that worked in CND any different than myself. And in truth, I worked with a lot of the people, you know, on the factory floor, up through quality, into production, onto purchasing. You know, I worked with them during my time within C and D. And the one thing about business in a rural community like that, you don't have a huge turnover of staff, you know, so the amount of people that spent their working lives working in C D was incredible, you know, so. And for that reason, a lot of us grew up together and grew old together, you know, and grew with families together and then saw, you know, our family's children coming into the business as well. So you do get a huge sense of community. And I think, you know, I would. I was very fortunate insofar as I think people sort of looked at me, especially when I took over at 25, and, you know, this was Maslow's theory, the hierarchy of theories. And I think that people had got beyond sort of, you know, those two lower tiers where he talks about sort of the need to survive and the need. The need to be associated to actually the need to belong. And I think people in Edgerstown belonged to C and D and I belong to them and them to me. And so therefore, it was really, it was truly a family business in the sense, in all senses of the word, you know, And I think that's what a business in a rural community like Edgestown teaches you, that, you know, we're as good as the next and we're all a little link in the chain. And just because I happen to be at one part in the chain and somebody else happens to be in another, doesn't really matter, you know, if I don't do my job the same way as you don't do yours, then it ain't going to work. So we do depend upon one another in that regard, you know, so I.
Sarah Jane Foster (19:29): Think they're going to appreciate you saying that a lot.
Philip Reynolds (19:32): I. I don't know whether I'm not saying it for that reason.
Sarah Jane Foster (19:35): Yeah. But it's not very often, like you hear somebody like that actually owns the company say that and speak so highly. I'm sure they think it, but, like, for you to actually say that out loud, I think people are definitely going to appreciate that, Philip, for sure.
Philip Reynolds (19:50): Well, yeah, as I said, that's not the reason, but that is, that is my true. I Mean, I, I, I had so many examples of where that proved to be the case that, you know, it's, it's the proof is there. Yeah. You know, because the business was destroyed.
Sarah Jane Foster (20:07): Where's the idea actually come from? Sorry, I'm, I'm stopping you there. Where did the idea of CND actually come from?
Philip Reynolds (20:14): Well, this is the thing, is that in the true sense of the word, I'm not the entrepreneur here. So that the, the real entrepreneur here is my father. Because he had the idea. And the idea came from. Because he, he ran, he had a bacon factory in Francis street in Dublin. Okay. And his best friend had a bacon factory in Ruski and County Roscommon, Hanley's. And he followed. This is my dad now. He followed what happened to the raw material, the fifth quarter, as they call it in the trade. In other words, the waste from animal production of where it ended up going. And he followed it to rings end and discovered it was being frozen in rings end and sent to the UK for pet food manufacturing. Yeah. So he spoke to his friend in Ruski and figured, well, you have a good deal more of this stuff than I have, but if we combine the loss, you know, could I make perhaps a pet food business outfit? And then he got a guy, got together with a guy who knew something about canning food and asked him could he help him to build a canning factory to can pet food. And that's where the idea came from. So that was 1969.
Sarah Jane Foster (21:23): Wow. I never knew that.
Philip Reynolds (21:25): Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he is the true entrepreneur in that sense. So what did I do? I only came over on and took over the reins. So, yeah, I can't take any credit for the idea.
Sarah Jane Foster (21:34): That's all right, so tell us what decisions turned CND into a major player then? You're probably too humble to answer that question.
Philip Reynolds (21:43): No, it's no way. Because it, it did become, it is a major player in the business that it's in. So like we had a devastating fire back in 2006 and. Yeah, and that was a turning point for the business. It was a turning point for me. It was a turning point for the fortunes of the business as well. Because at that stage the business was turning over about 100 million euros.
Sarah Jane Foster (22:09): And so it went from, so when you started, it went from, what did you say?
Philip Reynolds (22:15): Yeah, something like 10.
Sarah Jane Foster (22:16): And then. So you brought it to 100 million then.
Philip Reynolds (22:19): Yeah, no, that wasn't, I mean, as I said, I started in 1990 and the business went on fire in 2006. So, yeah, I mean, that's, you wouldn't call that a rapid progress now, would you? But certainly it was, it was a lot of years to get it to that point.
Sarah Jane Foster (22:35): Right.
Philip Reynolds (22:35): And when, when it was destroyed, the question for me was, was I going to go back and do it again and haven't spent 20 odd years trying to build it or building it from up and small numbers, 10 or 15 million 200. I said, I'm not going to spend another 25 trying to repeat the dose. So the choices at that stage were the business was extremely well insured, which was a big help, and the insurance company were keen obviously to try and do the best deal that they could for the insurance business and they wanted to give me a check, a smaller check, and for me not to go back into business or the alternative was to give me the full amount which the business was insured for, but I would have to go back and reinstate the business.
Sarah Jane Foster (23:26): So where were you when you heard about the fire?
Philip Reynolds (23:28): I was in bed.
Sarah Jane Foster (23:29): Oh my God.
Philip Reynolds (23:30): Yeah, it was about 1 o' clock on Sunday night, Monday morning. And again, one of the guys that I've said to you that I grew up with through the business, Frank Whitney.
Sarah Jane Foster (23:41): Oh my God.
Philip Reynolds (23:43): From Edgestown. Yeah. Rang and said, I think you need to come down, we have a problem. The, the back end of the plant is on fire. But by the time I got there, the, the whole plant was on, on fire. And yeah, so it was, it was a bit of a shock to say the least. And it took us a while to figure out just how bad it was, but it was, it was very bad. I mean it was, the total plant was lost, all of the services were lost, the power was lost to it. So yeah, we were basically, we were out of business. So yeah, so it was, it was that time that we had to figure out, you know, what were we going to do, were we going to cut and run or were we going to go again? And to your question about, you know, how the business grew to where it is today, I think that was the point because I said to myself, I did want to go back into business. I had spent 20 years in IT and I had seen some of the opportunities outside of Ireland and the uk, where that's where our business was up to that point. But I knew all of my competitors, I knew what the land looked like on mainland Europe, I had identified a couple of potential acquisition opportunities for the business in Europe and then bang, this happened. So anyway, I got to the point of agreeing that I would go back and reinstate the business, so the insurance company had to cough up. But I figured I wasn't going to be able to do it and achieve the ambition that I had, which was to expand the business into mainland, mainland Europe on my own. So that's when I formed a joint venture with ABP Foods. And it was that merger between the insurance proceeds that I had and the merger with ABP that allowed me to get the business back up and running in Edgestown, but also allowed me to fulfill the ambition that I had, try and make progress in Europe. So Yeah, that was 2006. So between that and 2016, 17, we did grow the business very rapidly. And yeah, so we eventually ended up seven factories across Europe with nine different sales offices in nine different countries and sales of 500 million. So it is a success story from that point of view, but certainly wouldn't have happened without that event on 6th January 2016. That's crazy, the fact that we did join forces with abp. Yeah. And then back to that point that I made to you again earlier about, you know, the people of Edgerton, that sense of community without them sort of helping me through those very, very early days of the 6th, 7th, 8th of January as to what we were going to do and how we were going to survive and whether we should go back into business again or not, I don't think any of that have happened. So. Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (26:43): How long were you out of business for then?
Philip Reynolds (26:47): In all we were. Well, we had two factories in Edgestown at the time. One of them, the canning factory which produced the main bulk of our business that was destroyed and that, that never, that never reappeared. We had a second factory there and the service, as I said, had been destroyed to the old site. We did reinstate them after three months. So we got that factory back up and back up and running and we had acquired a business in early 2000 in the UK, a dry pet food business as opposed to a wet pet food, which was all produced in Edgestown. And that kept us in with our customer base. So at least we were still in talking to the same customers. Not about the volume of business we had been before the fire, but at least we're still in front of them. So yeah, we convinced many of them to stick with us, that we were going to go back into business. And in fairness to a lot of them having spent 30 or 40 years supplying them, they were loyal to us and they did say if we were going to go back in that they would look to reinstate us as a supplier. And that was part and parcel of the encouragement that I got to go back in because I believed that they would actually enlist us again as a supplier if we went back. And that's. That's as it turned out. Yeah. So.
Sarah Jane Foster (28:01): So people were quite loyal to you then at that.
Philip Reynolds (28:03): Yeah, they were. And I have to say, on all sides. On all sides. You know, our employees, for sure. But yeah. Our suppliers and our customers. Yeah, they were all. They were all very good to us. Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (28:14): Incredible. So did that experience change your relationship with risk or security? Did you. Do you think you became, like, more of a risk?
Philip Reynolds (28:22): No, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't think so. I mean, it was nobody's fault.
Sarah Jane Foster (28:27): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (28:29): Things happen in life and, you know, I'm not the sort of one that goes around looking for somebody to blame anyway.
Sarah Jane Foster (28:35): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (28:36): And I don't tend. I don't like looking back. I prefer to look forward.
Sarah Jane Foster (28:41): So you're not going that way. Says you.
Philip Reynolds (28:43): Exactly. Exactly. So, no, it hasn't changed. The business was well insured, which was important. And therefore it was a question of what was the right thing to do for. Not for me, but what was the right thing to do for the business. And I hope insofar as it's still there and appears to be driving, that we got some decisions right along the way.
Sarah Jane Foster (29:08): Yeah. And then. So then, Philip, when did you know it was time to actually step back from C and D Foods?
Philip Reynolds (29:14): Well, I think that decision was made the day I decided to form a joint venture with ABP.
Sarah Jane Foster (29:20): Okay.
Philip Reynolds (29:22): You know, because up to that point, CND Foods was always 100% owned by the Reynolds, and it was a Reynolds business. But deciding that to bring ABP in as a 50% shareholder in the business, to me meant at some stage it was going to be 100% owned by ABP. So even though I didn't sell my remaining shares in the business until 2018, I really, in my mind, I sold them in 2006.
Sarah Jane Foster (29:52): Okay.
Philip Reynolds (29:52): So it didn't come as an overnight shock to me.
Sarah Jane Foster (29:55): Yeah. Was that intentional that you did that in a gradual process?
Philip Reynolds (29:59): No, it's just that the deal that I did with Larry Goodman at that time was that I agreed that I would reinvest all the insurance proceeds from the fire in the business if he provided an equal amount of capital to me to allow me to achieve the ambition of expanding and acquiring new businesses across Europe. And I knew at some point, because ABP is a family owned business, and I knew at some point he would want to incorporate C&D into the ABP family. Yeah, which made sense. So that was the logic of the deal that we did back in 2006. So it was going to come at some point and it came post the UK voting to. To leave the EU in 2016 and from that to 2018, you know, we kind of figured out what was the best way for that to happen. But, you know, a huge amount of C&D's business at that time was generated in the UK, all paid for in sterling. So. And when Britain joined or voted to leave the EU, the currency depreciated by 16% overnight. So. And the pet food business is great, but its margins aren't just as high as 16%, so you can imagine the impact that would have had on the business. So it was the right thing to do at the right time that had been planned out way in advance. So I had 10 years to come to terms with the fact that it wasn't going to be always a Reynolds business. So.
Sarah Jane Foster (31:33): Because I feel like a lot of people lose almost their identity when they do it and do it so fast.
Philip Reynolds (31:40): Yeah, well, as I said, it wasn't fast in my case, but. But equally it's. Look, it's you again. I. I'm a great believer and you make your mind up, mightn't be the right thing, but once your mind is made up, you should get fully behind the decision you make and get on with it yourself. Exactly, exactly.
Sarah Jane Foster (31:58): That's.
Philip Reynolds (31:59): That's. So, yeah, that's what I did. And I said I don't have a habit of looking back, so I'm delighted every time I drive into Mullingar to see the C and D sign still up in Marlinstown and the offices there, you know, I. When I see it, when I pass by the factory going down to the west of Ireland and sea, the smoke coming out of the chimneys there in Edgerstone, I kind of, of course, I'm delighted to see all of that happen, but I don't look back with any sort of regrets and I don't look back saying, oh, I wish it's none of that. You know, it was a time in my life and perhaps it was too long of a time in my life, you know, that I'm delighted was there, but equally I'm delighted where it is now too.
Sarah Jane Foster (32:38): Yeah. So what pulled you towards a new challenge after so many years of manufacturing?
Philip Reynolds (32:44): Well, I convinced myself that perhaps I was too young to retire.
Sarah Jane Foster (32:48): So who told you that?
Philip Reynolds (32:51): Well, I probably was told by Anna. If you could view my wife a Good few times, but it's probably also true. So. And I wanted to do something that was, that was completely different than what I had been doing before. I had really no interest in going back into either pet food or to food manufacturing. I had spent 40 years doing that. So it was time for something different. And after cnd I got involved in a few ventures myself that I had invested in. And it was from there the idea came to try and do something that was a little bit different to help people that are starting ocean business. And you know, that's, I invested in a few of those and not to be involved in a day to day management basis with them, but to help if I could at all. And I just kept seeing the same things happening over and over and the same questions being asked of me and me dishing out the same sort of advice. And coming from a production environment and looking at the system that, you know, new businesses, startups, entrepreneurs, founders were dealing with, I, you know, from a process point of view it just looked totally irrational to me and it looked totally cumbersome and I didn't think it was serving the best purpose for those that were involved in it. And I thought it could be done in a more efficient way. So that's where the idea, that's where the idea came from.
Sarah Jane Foster (34:29): Yeah. So you've launched major tech ventures including the AI founder tool and now My Liberty. So how did these ideas take shape originally?
Philip Reynolds (34:38): Well, that's, that's how they, that's how they took shape. I mean we've, insofar as I was working with founders and as I said, even you know, whether it's from applying to their local enterprise office all the way up to asking Enterprise Ireland for support. As I said, looking at it, I spent my life trying to eke out the last euro out of producing cans of pet food and whatever I could save along the way and however efficient I could get along the way made made me a wealthier person. So I was looking at that in the same vein and I was saying, sure, this can't be right. I mean there's got to be a better process that can be put in place here to cut out a lot of the waste and a lot of the duplication and a lot of the complications. So, so I sat down with Guy, I had my own ideas about that. But you know, bar turning on a computer now and been able to answer my mobile phone, that's as far as it gets with me and tech. So what I did get together with a couple of tech guys and I did say to them, you know, surely we can find some way of automating, digitizing a lot of what founders have to go through. And it was happening in an age where AI was taking off as well. And you know, I found myself talking to all these tech guys who, you know, live in a world of Ackermans and It's GLS and LLMs and stuff. And I wouldn't have a breeze what they were talking about. But at the end of the day, I was trying to convince them that there must be a sensible, more sensible, more as I said, efficient way of helping founders to get the support and help that they need to get their businesses off the ground. And it was that idea that where we came up with my bertie. And what is really is a co pilot to try and help first time founders. It really is a way of cutting through all of the paperwork that needs to be done, all of the hurdles that need to be jumped to be able to get people to a place where first of all they can verify the idea that they have. Secondly, that they can go to market and test that there truly is a market for the idea they have. Because that's the biggest challenge that I found with a lot of founders that I've dealt with, worked with, is that they have a brilliant idea, but they have never really tested the market to know whether the market wants this idea, whether there's a business in this idea. And so we've built a lot of, we've built a lot of agents to try and cut through all of that work in the quickest possible time. And then if they can validate the idea, they have to be able to move them to a place where they can get the most support and mentoring and coaching that they need to be able to get to a place where they can decide whether this is a business opportunity or not. And I want to do that in a way that democratizes venture building for everybody. Because when you look at the entrepreneurial session, the entrepreneurial pool, they all tend to come from the middle to upper class, working class people. And I don't know who said that should ever be right. Good ideas can come from anywhere. But it is a fact that if you actually look at it, that lower to middle income groups are grossly underrepresented in founder and startup and entrepreneurs, not just in Ireland, but across the world. And some way of democratizing startups and entrepreneurial support that gives everybody access and gives everybody a chance to see whether the ideas they have are worth pursuing or not is what lies behind ultimately lies behind the idea of my birthday.
Sarah Jane Foster (38:43): So it's very inclusive. My birthday is very inclusive.
Philip Reynolds (38:46): I hope, I hope it is. I mean, you know, again, having spent as long in business as I have, I recognize that some of us have strengths in one areas and we have a complete blind spot in another. And if you're going to succeed, it's not because of how good you are. It's going to be about how good a team you have around you. And you know, again, that's one of the loneliness of being an entrepreneur, of, to be, of being a founder, of starting a new business is you find yourself on your own and nobody can ever expect to have all of the answers. And is there a way that we can provide support and answers in a digitalized form that people don't need to spend lots and lots of money creating big teams of people because they can't afford it at that stage? So my idea is to be able to use the powers of AI, to be able to train, support and mentors for people that have those blind spots in different areas and that they can come to my bertie and plug in where those blind spots are and that my bertie will support and help them in a way that otherwise they wouldn't get. And if that can help, if that can help democratize venture building for everybody, then ultimately we're all only going to benefit from that.
Sarah Jane Foster (40:17): So where do you see tech and AI heading then in the next few years?
Philip Reynolds (40:21): Well, I think AI is the new www.you know, if you go back that far, like it's, it's not, it's not a pass, it's not a phase, it's, it's staying. Whether we, whether we like it or not, it has, I think, personally, I think it has enormous advantages if we, well, if we first of all demystify what AI is all about. Because I said to you when I came to the space first, I sat in meetings and I hadn't a clue what was going on because guys are talking in, in this tech speak that makes no sense to a lot of people. And I think a lot of the problems with, and a lot of the perception of AI is coming from that idea that it's techie people that are talking about AI, whereas I prefer to talk about AI in ordinary English speak. And I think when, when that happens, when people explain in a way that we can all understand what AI can do and where the benefits of AI are, I think people are less, less scared of that. So, you know, anybody is, if you don't know something and you know, your, your natural instinct is to be afraid of it, whereas I think we need to educate people about where the benefits of that are. And there surely is enormous benefits that we can have from it. And it's not necessarily a threat to one or any of us. It can be. My way of looking at it is it's a way of us reaching far more people than we would otherwise. And if I go back to the thinking behind my Bertie, that's exactly what we're trying to do. I'm trying to reach more people by whatever learning I have and whatever systems that the guys have created around it in a way that allows us to expand the pool that we can talk to. And so that's using the same resource, but it's, it's, it's creating more efficiency from it and productivity from it. And maybe that's Back to the OC&D days again about productivity and so forth. But that's what it's. And if people could think about it in that way, people could think that whatever skill and whatever competence I have, if I have it, and if I can somehow use machine learning to allow me to expand the numbers of people that I can touch with my experience, then doesn't everybody benefit from that, myself included, you know, and that's, that's the thinking. So I think it's here to stay. I think it has enormous benefits that it can create enormous value. And I think if we embraced it rather than sort of be skeptical of it, then it has a place that's not going to threaten humanity. But we do need to understand it because, you know, there are people, as we speak here, there are people out there developing, you know, language models, as they call them, you know, that's going to create the next AI model. And ultimately the model is the same as, you know, any computer system. If you put crap in, you get crap out. And if you want, if you want to create something that ultimately represents you, whether that's you, Sarah Jane Foster, or whether that's you, Ireland, Inc. Then you need to put the effort in to ensure that what's going in is Sarah Jane Foster, so that what comes out the other end is not just a vanilla of any other Sarah Jane Foster. So what makes you different is you. And if we're going to create AI models to do things in our lives, which we are doing, then we want to make sure that we control that so that what comes out the other end is something that we're proud of. And I think that's a challenge for, for us.
Sarah Jane Foster (44:27): All.
Philip Reynolds (44:27): But I think it's a challenge for us as a country as well, because, you know, unless we're investing behind this, it's somebody else is going to decide what the Sarah Jane Fosters of the world looks like. As opposed to Sarah Jane Foster?
Sarah Jane Foster (44:40): Yeah. What do you think? What do you think is the biggest thing that founders misunderstand about AI?
Philip Reynolds (44:49): The biggest challenge that I have seen is genuinely that I think people have lots of good ideas, but it's how quickly you can test those good ideas in the market to ensure that, you know, this is something worth pursuing. All founders that I have come across, you know, have borrowed and begged and scraped money from people, you know, whether it's family and friends, to be able to test their ideas. And again, part and parcel of what my birthday is all about is to try then to get the answers to the questions that those people have in the quickest and most efficient and cost effective way possible.
Sarah Jane Foster (45:26): Philip, what do Irish founders still need to learn about building scalable companies?
Philip Reynolds (45:32): Well, I suppose maybe the first thing we could all learn is that, you know, it can be done at home and Irish companies don't need to sell out to big multinationals to be successful. And I mean, that's one of the things that I am happy about in terms of where C and D has, has ended up. You know, it's, it's part of an Irish owned family company that, you know, that's huge now in its own right. I don't mean the C and D part of it, but the ABP food business is a huge business, you know, turning over 4 or 5 billion euros now. So, and C and D is part of that so we can grow success at home and it doesn't need to be all about faraway pastures. If we want to talk about, you know, how we scale businesses, it's only that is, is that it can be done. There's no reason why it can't be done. And we now can connect with the world from anywhere. So, you know, whether that's the beauty of communications and how that has developed or again, going back to our old friend AI, you know, it allows us to do things remotely, it allows us to do things, you know, from places that people would have said it's not possible in the past. So AI companies no longer, tech companies no longer need to jump on the first flight to San Francisco, you know, and end up in Silicon Valley. There's no reason why that can't happen, you know, from the Midlands of Ireland anymore. So I think that's a Cultural change that we need to understand, you know, that. And if we do, we can grow big, big Irish companies.
Sarah Jane Foster (47:08): So do you think Irish entrepreneurs undervalue themselves when raising money?
Philip Reynolds (47:12): Well, I think this. I think, like, we, we have grown up, you know, we, we are an island, you know, and we're a small few people.
Sarah Jane Foster (47:21): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (47:21): You know, and when people talk about market and so forth, our market is very small and whether, and we touched on it earlier on, about where our, where our values come from and where, how we come to have the characteristics we have, you know, is it about the environment in which you grow up in? And if it is, then, you know, you can understand why perhaps Irish entrepreneurs come to the table thinking, you know, smaller than perhaps that guy that arrived in, in Silicon Valley, you know, But I do think we, we do underestimate our ability, and I do think we underestimate our value. And yet, you know, when we look at the success of Irish companies around the world and success of Irish founders around the world, there's absolutely no reason why we should do that. So I do think we could and should be more ambitious about what we can achieve. And I think if we do, we will succeed.
Sarah Jane Foster (48:28): And what's been your smartest financial decision?
Philip Reynolds (48:32): Buying Ryanair shares at when they were €2 40.
Sarah Jane Foster (48:37): Damn you. Why didn't I think of that?
Philip Reynolds (48:39): Well, when I did it, at the time somebody told me what happens if one of Michael Leary's planes fall out of the sky. I said, that'll be the end of my 240. Yeah, maybe that was it. So thanks, Michael.
Sarah Jane Foster (48:52): Thank you, Mr. O'. Leary. That's incredible. When was that? What year was that?
Philip Reynolds (48:55): Oh, God, it's a long time ago.
Sarah Jane Foster (48:57): Right, okay, I love that. What about your, your biggest money mistake then? Getting into horses?
Philip Reynolds (49:05): Yes, probably.
Sarah Jane Foster (49:06): Thank you, Michael.
Philip Reynolds (49:07): Probably. Probably the easiest way to become a millionaire, you know, say, win with 2 million and into horses and you'll soon end up with one. So maybe that. Maybe you're right. Maybe that is.
Sarah Jane Foster (49:18): Got you out of a hole there. What was the most expensive mistake you made at scale?
Philip Reynolds (49:24): Oh, Jesus. So, Jen, these are hard questions. That's at scale, as I said to him.
Sarah Jane Foster (49:34): You didn't make it yet.
Philip Reynolds (49:35): Well, no, I didn't say that. I'm sure I've made lots. I made lots of mistakes. I'm absolutely sure I made lots of mistakes, but I don't tend to dwell on them, to be honest with you. You know, as I said to you earlier on, you make your mind up about something, and for better or for worse, you know, you get behind it. The worst thing you can do is not make a decision.
Sarah Jane Foster (49:56): You seem to be very decisive.
Philip Reynolds (49:59): Well, yeah, I, yeah, I think I make a decision and I move on. Yeah, for sure. And I encouraged everybody else, you know, that, that I worked with over the years to do likewise. And that's not to say that we always get them right. We don't.
Sarah Jane Foster (50:15): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (50:16): But equally, I would always encourage people to sort of say, there's nothing wrong with admitting that you don't know.
Sarah Jane Foster (50:23): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (50:23): You know, so I, I had an awful lot more time for people that would put their hand up and say they needed help than those that stuck the head down and didn't know, but felt that they couldn't. Almost as if it was a weakness that they couldn't admit that they didn't know. Yeah, none of us know. None of us know everything, but together we can actually find the answer. Yeah. And, and then we're all sort of handcuffed to it. So if it's, if it's the wrong one, then sure, we all made the wrong decision together.
Sarah Jane Foster (50:55): So what's one process every founder should put in place from day one? Says, you asked my birthday.
Philip Reynolds (51:04): Yeah. There's lots of them, I think.
Sarah Jane Foster (51:11): Give us your top three.
Philip Reynolds (51:13): Well, I, I, I, I, I referenced it earlier on. I think that, that, you know, we, when you are a founder and you come up with this idea and you're convinced it's great, you know, and you can convince everybody that's in your inner circle.
Sarah Jane Foster (51:28): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (51:29): That it's equally as great. And a lot of those, sadly, you know, haven't the honesty to say to you that they don't think it's great, even if they did think it's not great. So you kind of get this false encouragement about it, and almost to the point where you, you do develop that sort of blind spot that said it's a great idea and you plow on regardless, and you don't really check as to whether it may be a great idea. But there's anybody ever going to pay me for this because, you know, ultimately then if it don't, if they don't, it's not a great idea.
Sarah Jane Foster (52:06): It's a hobby.
Philip Reynolds (52:07): Yes. So that would be one. You know, I do think people should check the market. I mean, it's a very, very brutal place, and there'll be no place quicker to tell you that it's a bad idea. And if you're given the opportunity to check the market without having gone to all the trouble, expense and time you know that otherwise you would have done, shouldn't you take it? And I think you should. And that would be one piece of advice. The other would be, you know, a person that starts a business is not necessarily the right person to run a business. And I think I have seen too many businesses that could have been, should have been great businesses started by great people with great ideas, but they were the wrong people to manage it at the point in time where I came across them.
Sarah Jane Foster (53:05): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (53:05): And that's really, really sad because somebody has broken the back of what's the hardest thing to do in the first place, which is to start a business. So just keep that mirror on the wall and look at it and ask yourself the honest to God question. I might have been the right person to start this. Am I the right person for the phase that it's in now? And I think if, if a founder can keep that check on themselves, they would be doing themselves and their business a huge service.
Sarah Jane Foster (53:37): So essentially our founders gonna actually have their very own Philip Reynolds in their pocket disguised as my birthday.
Philip Reynolds (53:45): No, they're gonna have their own very. My birthday in their pocket. I hope certainly won't be Philip Reynolds. No.
Sarah Jane Foster (53:51): But obviously you're inputting your experiences and your learnings into the AI that some, some founder can actually take from that. Right?
Philip Reynolds (54:00): Yeah. Yes, we are in, yes in, in, in this case. But it's the way we have developed it. It's totally configurable. So. Okay, if somebody has, and I'm sure lots of people have better ways of doing things than I have, they can configure it to their, to their way of thinking. So. And in any vertical as well. So it doesn't have to be like we are concentrating on the B2B tech side of it, the business to business. Not to fall into the trap now of all these techies. Speak.
Sarah Jane Foster (54:29): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (54:29): Business to business. So we're, we're concentrating in that space, you know, but it can be in the food space, it can be in the fintech space, can be in the med tech space. It can be in any, it can be in any space. It just needs somebody with the experience in that space to be able to build the content that I have built with the help of the guys.
Sarah Jane Foster (54:50): Okay.
Philip Reynolds (54:50): Right. To create a program for somebody in another space.
Sarah Jane Foster (54:54): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (54:55): So how what they want to call that then could be Ms. Sarah Jane.
Sarah Jane Foster (54:59): There you go. So who are the three people who had the biggest impact on your career?
Philip Reynolds (55:04): Wow. My. Again, I don't think I would single out any. Anyone person that Is it? I mean, I admire, I admire traits more than I admire people.
Sarah Jane Foster (55:22): Okay.
Philip Reynolds (55:22): I think, I think people. This might sound terrible, and I don't mean it in this sort of way.
Sarah Jane Foster (55:30): Right.
Philip Reynolds (55:30): But people ultimately can be the biggest disappointment in life.
Sarah Jane Foster (55:35): You can sing that.
Philip Reynolds (55:36): Yeah. Okay, so we agree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they can. I mean, you know, we invest an awful lot of time. We, we spend an awful lot of time with people and they can disappoint. And, you know, therefore it's a risky hobby to start looking up to people and saying, you know, I admire them because whether it's today, tomorrow, or at some point in the future, they'll surely disappoint you and let you down.
Sarah Jane Foster (56:02): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (56:03): So I don't tend to. I, I tend to look at traits in people and I tend to say, I actually like the way that person does X, Y or Z. And it's more depth that I would focus on. So I would try to take a little piece of this and a little piece of that.
Sarah Jane Foster (56:21): Yeah, I like that you do that. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it.
Philip Reynolds (56:25): Yeah. Yeah. So there's nobody that. I mean, there's lots of great, great, great people out there. And do I follow them and do I look at what they're doing? Of course I do. But when I put the whole package.
Sarah Jane Foster (56:36): Together, I don't like it that much.
Philip Reynolds (56:40): I kind of come off of it short. So I take the pieces I like.
Sarah Jane Foster (56:46): That's fair enough. Philip, what's a hard truth about entrepreneurship that you wish you had been told at 25?
Philip Reynolds (56:54): Oh, well, I, I'm sure I was told it. Whether I was listening or not is probably the way, you know that. It's, it's not, it's. It's clearly not going to be a bed of roses. It's clearly not going to be, you know, all one way traffic and. Yeah, but if, again, I go back to if, you know, if you surround yourself with the right people, it's a huge comfort blanket when things go wrong. And you can be sure that things go wrong. It mightn't be on the scale of some of the things that have gone wrong.
Sarah Jane Foster (57:30): Yeah. You mentioned loneliness earlier. Do you think, do you think that's something that surprised you about being an entrepreneur? That it can be quite lonely?
Philip Reynolds (57:39): Yeah, it can. For sure it can. And I think, I think I was. I think I'm pretty. I would think I was pretty well equipped for that.
Sarah Jane Foster (57:48): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (57:49): Insofar as, you know, I, as I said at the outset Like I went to Russ Gray for five years to boarding school and I think, you know, I can't speak for everybody. I can speak for myself. I think that. And in that time, I think it did, I did form a, a personality that was quite self sufficient and can sort of survive and therefore the loneliness part of entrepreneurship, even though I say I'm not an entrepreneur.
Sarah Jane Foster (58:28): You don't consider yourself an entrepreneur?
Philip Reynolds (58:30): No, I do, I don't. I'm having a go at it now. So we'll do the series two when we come back.
Sarah Jane Foster (58:35): Right.
Philip Reynolds (58:36): I'll tell you whether we succeeded or not. But no, I don't, because as I said, my father was the one who had the idea. Yeah, I mean, an entrepreneur is somebody who creates something.
Sarah Jane Foster (58:43): Okay.
Philip Reynolds (58:44): You know, I didn't create something. I, I took on something, but I didn't create it. So he's the one that deserves the credit for that. But. So no, I, I don't see myself as being an entrepreneur, but I think that like I can see that anybody running a business, yes, it can be a lonely place, despite those that you might surround because ultimately, you know, the decision rests with you. But that never took a real toll on me, to be honest with you, because for the reasons I've just said and like Anne would say to me as well, is that I do have an ability to leave work behind me. So, you know, once I go home and close the door behind me, that is it, that genuinely is it. And it doesn't matter whether it's business, whether it's horses or whether it's my birthday. You know, it's when, yeah, when the time comes to finish that it's finished and we'll, it'll be there tomorrow and we'll come back and we'll look at it and we'll see whatever we have to do again tomorrow and start again. Yeah, but it's not something that consumes me.
Sarah Jane Foster (59:46): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (59:47): So. But it is a, it can be a lonely spot. Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (59:51): So what's, what's a daily habit that has made the biggest difference to your success?
Philip Reynolds (59:56): Well, I let somebody else define whether it's success or not. But my biggest, I think to be active, I think is so an active body is an active mind. And so yeah, I would work out exercise. I try to keep myself as alert as I possibly can. And I do think that that gives you the energy to, to get on and to do whatever it is.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:00:23): So you're disciplined that way, keeping your, your body active.
Philip Reynolds (01:00:27): Yeah, yeah, I would. Yeah. And I see that as Being terribly important. You know, it's not just about how you look or how you feel, but.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:00:35): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (01:00:36): In the mind, you know, you've get out and do a good walk or a good run or a good workout, and when it's finished, you might like it while you're doing it, but when it's finished, you feel a hell of a lot better.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:00:48): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (01:00:49): You know. Yeah. And you can face into something then, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah, I would say that's.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:00:54): So what does your day look like then? I should say, what's your best day look like?
Philip Reynolds (01:01:00): Well, that does form. Part of it would be. Would be exercise. So do you get up early in the morning? Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't be late. I wouldn't be. You know, I spent. I spent too many years getting up for the red eye to London or to wherever it was going.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:01:16): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (01:01:16): So, you know, I'm not six o' clock in the morning riser anymore.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:01:20): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (01:01:22): You know, but I would be up and at it and doing stuff half, eight or nine o'clock in the morning, so. And exercise will definitely form some part. Some part of my day, wherever that might happen. Yeah. So. And I now have three grandkids and a fourth on the way, so FaceTime with them at some stage during the day, you know, is definitely important. So family is, you know, we're small, I've only three kids myself, but the larger family is growing by the day. So, yeah, family is very, very important. So the opportunity to spend time with them.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:01:58): So I know we touched briefly on horses earlier. So how did you first get into owning horses?
Philip Reynolds (01:02:04): I'm afraid I have to put that down to dad as well. Yes. Whether that's an entrepreneurial spirit now or not, I don't know because there's definitely no money to be made in horses,.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:02:13): So there's crack to be made. What did Presenting Percy teach you about business or horse? Just having horses in general.
Philip Reynolds (01:02:23): What he should have taught me as opposed to what he did teach me. What he should have taught me was he said he was one in a million.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:02:29): Right.
Philip Reynolds (01:02:29): And that I'm not going to find another one. But despite the fact that he's long since gone, I continue to try and find another Presenting Percy, which I very much doubt is going to happen.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:02:40): Right, fair enough. So, Philip, at the end of every podcast that I do, so I do this quick fire round. Do you want to do it with me?
Philip Reynolds (01:02:49): There's another heart?
Sarah Jane Foster (01:02:51): No, 11. Very 11. 11 Of them. They're usually 10, but for some reason I have 11 for you.
Philip Reynolds (01:02:58): So let's see.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:02:59): Yeah, right. Let's go for it.
Philip Reynolds (01:03:00): Can I pass if I want to pass?
Sarah Jane Foster (01:03:01): Always. Absolutely. Well, you are on unfiltered, so we might make you answer it.
Philip Reynolds (01:03:05): Oh, okay. Go on.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:03:07): There's no getting out of it. Right. Philip, first job you ever worked?
Philip Reynolds (01:03:11): Filling CIE containers.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:03:14): What? CIE containers.
Philip Reynolds (01:03:15): See, you're too young. I need to get somebody of my own age to do this podcast. Chorus upper air CIE.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:03:24): Right.
Philip Reynolds (01:03:24): Right. Before Irish Rail, it was called CIE.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:03:28): Okay.
Philip Reynolds (01:03:28): And they used to deliver 20 foot trucks or containers out to C and D and we used to pack them full of pet food because it was easier to. Cheaper to ship a 20 foot container than it was a 40 foot trailer.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:03:43): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (01:03:43): But the trick was to fill them in such a way that when the guy on the other side opened the back door that the whole lot detects and collapse and kill him. So don't ask me how because I've forgotten long since how we actually did it. But that was. That was my first job.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:03:58): Fair enough. One lesson from your father you still live by,.
Philip Reynolds (01:04:03): But he would always have said, when times are bad, paint the outside of the shop. So I'll let you think about that one.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:04:10): I love that one. That's. I. That's really cool one. My brother always says, when things are bad, dress well.
Philip Reynolds (01:04:16): Same thing.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:04:17): There you go. Exactly. Biggest money mistake. Did we touch on that already?
Philip Reynolds (01:04:21): I'd say horses might have been the greatest enjoyment of all time, but it was definitely the biggest money mistake.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:04:27): Smartest money decision.
Philip Reynolds (01:04:29): I told you. Ryanair. Thanks, Michael.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:04:31): Love that. A tech founder you admire. I don't One idea or book that changed how you think.
Philip Reynolds (01:04:38): It's not a book. It's not an idea, but something that I have been thinking, and I was reading it somewhere recently about COVID and the impact of COVID and I would have. I do have a concern for a generation of kids that grew up during that period of time. And as in they missed. Whether it was their days in college or they missed their early and formative years in the workplace. And my idea is. And it's nothing to do with my verti. What my idea is, is that we somehow need to get back to support those people because I think they could end up being a lost generation.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:05:27): Oh, wow, that's interesting.
Philip Reynolds (01:05:29): Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think the whole idea about remote working and all of that is to me is. Is worrying and I think particularly for that generation. And they are the generation that seem to almost think more about it and feel that it's now part of what life looks like is that, you know, the idea that they have to go to the office any more than two days a week, you know, is, is just stands. Is everything to stand against. And that might be okay for guys my age who, if they haven't learned it in the 40 years and they're in the office, they should never probably been in the office in the first place. But apart from the fact that they haven't learned for this generation that have never been there, how they ever have the opportunity to learn from their peers and how they will ever pick up the things that when we only pick up by living off and living and sitting beside and learning from each other is something that I would be concerned about. Yeah, so there's an idea there.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:06:40): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (01:06:41): But how we solve it. Yeah, we need to get to think about.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:06:45): Yeah, you could be on something there.
Philip Reynolds (01:06:47): Do you reckon?
Sarah Jane Foster (01:06:48): Yeah, definitely. I never thought of it. Like, I'm sure there's other people watching this that like it. It's so. It's such an obvious thing now that you say it, but I just never thought of it.
Philip Reynolds (01:06:58): Yeah, it's. I. I can see, you know, even with some of the guys that I'm dealing with and talking to, I can see that the generation that comes behind is coming behind that generation. There's a. An opportunity that they're going to leapfrog them because they, they just weren't out of circulation in the same way as that generation were. And it's not only that they were out of circulation, but it's almost as if they continued to be out of circulation. You know what I mean? And I would deeply encourage any of that generation to spend that little bit more time to look for jobs that actually force them into the office. Right. And not to be. There's also this trend of. And again, it's more from what I've seen, more from within that generation that feel that they can jump and hop from one job to another job. And I know I might sound a bit old school here now when I sort of say that, you know, going through CVs in the old days, if I saw somebody, you know, that hadn't spent any decent length of time, and when I said decent length, I'd be talking years now, not months in the same job, I would have been concerned. But it's as if now, you know, we're all sort of transient and we can jump from one job to the next job. And that's all very well if, you know, if you have a basic grounding in that. That you're jumping from and to. But that generation, I feel so sorry for them because I don't think they ever had that grounding. Yeah. And therefore, I think the generation that's coming behind them has an opportunity to leapfrog them and leave them behind. And I think that generation itself is going to struggle unless they realize it and are prepared to put in the work. And sadly, it's up to themselves to put in that work, you know? So either get immersed in what you're doing now and really, really, really understand it, or force yourself into an environment where you have to get into the office and start to learn from those that. That. That are your peers.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:09:09): Yeah. Who's the first person you call when making a business decision?
Philip Reynolds (01:09:14): So I do have a guy. I'll mention his name. Otherwise you'll think I'm making it up. His name is Gerard Flood. He used to be the head of corporate finance in kpmg. He worked with me for a long time as my corporate finance advisor. He's the exact opposite to me in others. If I say white, he'll say black. He won't say it just for the sake of it, but that's where invariably we end up. And I truly value his opinion. And if ultimately he either talks me around or I talk him around, I'd be fairly happy that we've reached the right decision. And I think that's very important that somebody has somebody like that that's not a yes man or a woman, that's not connected, and it's not at the other end of a checkbook either somebody that you can value an opinion on because he or she is giving you the opinion that they feel is right for you, you can always choose to ignore it.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:10:19): Yeah.
Philip Reynolds (01:10:21): That's your right. That's your prerogative. But to have somebody that has truly a sense of you and is advising you for you, not for them or anybody else, but for you. And that guy is, for me, has always been Gerard Flood and continues to be Gerard Flood. So if I had a business decision to make in the morning, that's the first call I'd make.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:10:43): Big shout out to Gerard Flood.
Philip Reynolds (01:10:45): Yeah.
Sarah Jane Foster (01:10:45): So he'd be happy. He got that. He got that. Shout out. Philip, I can't thank you enough for being on the show today. Thank you so much.